USA and China changing places??

[thir]

On Danish news there is a debate as to whether the whole US economy is on the point of collaps. The general opinion seems to be that Bush left such a debt that Obama cannot handle it when harmstrong between the senate and the congress, and that the situation is worse than in Greece. It is speculated that the only solution is to apply to China for extention of loans, and that that will eventually have a big impact on the world power structure, and that China might well, eventually, take over the role that USA has now.

What does the list think of all this?

[ksst]

I think it's likely and crappy.

[lucy]

Not anytime soon and whether it'll be China or maybe India remains to be seen. But yes, America will eventually lose the role it plays now, like every other superpower/imperium in the history of mankind did.

Funny enough that starting two wars they couldn't win has helped a lot in that. History does repeat itself sometimes.

[Stealth694]

I will put this in the maybe column;
recently NBC News Broadcast how Labor in China is getting more expensive, and the product is worse than ever, short cuts, shoddy material, poor
manufacturing ect. The owner of the plant said that he was moving his plant BACK to the United States.
If you want a copy of the broadcast let me know.

[IAN 2411]

I thought we had already been along this route and i was more or less told it would never happen.

http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/forums/sh...ollar-and-BRIC

Be Well IAN 2411

[DuncanONeil]

"The general opinion seems to be that Bush left such a debt that Obama cannot handle it when harmstrong between the senate and the congress"
If this is the opinion of Danish news I think they have drunk the Kool Aid. True the debt increased from $5 trillion to $10 trillion over eight years. But at the rate the current administration is spending, if they have the same time frame, they will ADD $14 trillion to the debt. That is a second doubling in 8 years, but it would be way worse than adding $5 trillion (actually a bit less).

Actually agree with Stealth, China is having problems as well. The US administration is trying to solve this "crisis" the same way they tried in the '30s. That took 10 years & a world war. Not sure we can deal with another war of that magnitude!!

On Danish news there is a debate as to whether the whole US economy is on the point of collaps. The general opinion seems to be that Bush left such a debt that Obama cannot handle it when harmstrong between the senate and the congress, and that the situation is worse than in Greece. It is speculated that the only solution is to apply to China for extention of loans, and that that will eventually have a big impact on the world power structure, and that China might well, eventually, take over the role that USA has now.

What does the list think of all this?

[Stealth694]

I don't think a War will be necessary, but its time to re-evaluate our allies and our commitments.

We can no longer afford to give to every third world nation that begs for aid. Its time to turn forign aid into domestic aid.

[StrictMasterD]

Clnton left a $250 Billion Dolar Surplus when he left the White House, When BUsh took over he turned that surplus into the biggest deficit in US History in the shortrest length of time
Beween Iraq & Afhganistan, he ran the "Car" into the ditch
Yo do not engage in ANY warunles you have a plan to exit thewar, Bush had no plan for either Wars, but he left office and left Obama with 2 unpaid for wars, a debt largerthen we have seen etc
Obam is simply trying to get us out ofthe mess that the Busgs Adminstration place onthis country, and fort thr record I did not vote for Obam in 2008 nor wil I in 2012, but I certalywil not vote for anyone runnig inthe Repbulican Race
90% of the issue, probelsm, with both WArs, the Economy etc were Inhereted by Obama not by Bush at ;east Obama has started to pull tropps outo f Iraq and wil be out of Afhganistan, shortly
Don't blame Obama for the mess he was left with, he had no insiguht into the Sub Prime Mortage Problem, amon other issues
Bush never made a plan t oend either WArs, you must have a Exit Stradigy when you go to war, no moneywas ever Appropriated for either War, yes we were attack on 911BUT when you go to war you need a plan to exit it
You win a WAr simply by taking your Emeny'sAbility to win and fiht away from them
The biggest issue with our country is we have this intense need to always Flex our Muscles but nevrr seem to have th ability to use them

[lucy]

"The general opinion seems to be that Bush left such a debt that Obama cannot handle it when harmstrong between the senate and the congress"
[COLOR="#00FF00"]If this is the opinion of Danish news I think they have drunk the Kool Aid. True the debt increased from $5 trillion to $10 trillion over eight years. But at the rate the current administration is spending, if they have the same time frame, they will ADD $14 trillion to the debt. That is a second doubling in 8 years, but it would be way worse than adding $5 trillion (actually a bit less).
/COLOR]

Yeah, but then again he's got to pay a lot of interest on the ten trillion. Too lazy to figure out how much that is annually, but I'd say it buys a lot of hawt shoes.
Also, Obama has to live with two wars his idiot of a predecessor with his idiots of cronies started (and couldn't win).

[thir]

Yeah, but then again he's got to pay a lot of interest on the ten trillion. Too lazy to figure out how much that is annually, but I'd say it buys a lot of hawt shoes.
Also, Obama has to live with two wars his idiot of a predecessor with his idiots of cronies started (and couldn't win).

And a huge bank crisis.

[Lion]

I wouldn't say this change will occur any time soon, but I believe inevitable. US is the worlds largest economy partly because it has the population to sustain it. Simple math is simple math, China has over 3-4 times more people US has, if they are able to catch up in terms of a middle class, GDP/person, US just can not compete. And not even the best policies will help. China just needs to ensure it's economic progress is not a bubble and slow it down to a more manageable rate. It has a few more crucial tests, a currency that's not fixed for one.

And you can bet the Chinese are going to match dollar for dollar what the Americans are spending in military, eventually surpassing them.

[leo9]

And a huge bank crisis.

Also the work of the prevous administration, which dismantled all the controls that were meant to prevent it, because, you know, unfettered capitalism is the engine of prosperity.

There's a conspiracy theory that they knew perfectly well that the economy was riding for a fall, but the crash was supposed to happen after the election, so it could all be blamed on the Dems. If true, this shows that they couldn't get anything right, from conquering a bankrupt country with a crippled army and a divided population, to creating an economic disaster. But the sheeple are still blaming Obama, so I guess it worked just the same.

I think it's not so much about nations: it's more that free market capitalism, like Soviet communism, is a system that has been tried till it crashed. What China and India have in common is a model that mixes a powerful State and entepreneurial capitalism, having come to it from opposite political directions; most of their problems are about getting the balance of state regulation and enterprise right, and stopping the capitalists taking too much power. Europe used to run on versions of that model, till we were persuaded to try the American method of taking off all the controls and letting the money-jugglers do as they pleased. Which worked wonderfully till the Ponzi schemes collapsed.

[leo9]

I wouldn't say this change will occur any time soon, but I believe inevitable. US is the worlds largest economy partly because it has the population to sustain it. Simple math is simple math, China has over 3-4 times more people US has, if they are able to catch up in terms of a middle class, GDP/person, US just can not compete.

If population growth were the source of prosperity, Africa would be the richest place in the world and Switzerland the poorest. It's not the people, it's what they are doing - China and India are making the transition from predominantly agricultural to industrial, which gives you a massive boost because of all the cheap labour of displaced peasants. "Mature" economies can't repeat that trick because they've gone past the point of having a use for cheap labour, which is why unemployment is their big problem. What they need is trained and educated labour, which doesn't come cheap unless you steal it from less mature economies, either by hiring immigrants or outsourcing work; either is a short term saving that stores up trouble for later.

And you can bet the Chinese are going to match dollar for dollar what the Americans are spending in military, eventually surpassing them.

Not if they've got the sense they've demonstrated so far.

[tedteague]

things like America don't collapse, they erode over a generation or two. and yes, it will

[thir]

;east Obama has started to pull tropps outo f Iraq and wil be out of Afhganistan, shortly

What I heard recently was that he was also pulling a lot of troops out of Europe - troops I personally did not even know was still there! But a good idea, Europe's problems should be solves by Europe.

By comparison China is not, as far as I know, involved in any wars.