Why do many BDSM people look down on switches?

[shadowcast]

Good thread. I'm pretty new to everything, and am still in that stage of trying to figure out exactly where I fit in. I do have a dominant side, but find myself thinking and fantasizing about submission much more often, so I pretty much came to the conclusion that I'm more of a sub. I don't think my dom side is prevalent enough to consider myself a switch, but maybe. But I don't see why so many people think being a switch is so impossible. People automatically take dom/sub roles in everyday life, don't they? Just think about your circle of friends. Maybe when you get together with a particular person, they're the one who makes all the plans, say "we're going here, we're doing this," they have that personality, and you just say "Okay." You automatically fall into that role, they're in charge. Or maybe it's the other way around, and another of your friends is more shy and quiet, so you're the one who makes the plans and calls the shots. Or maybe you're both on the same page and plan the night evenly. I think everyone has those kinds of dynamics with people in their everyday life, so why would it be so impossible to have those same reactions in a BDSM sense? To feel more sub around a certain person, more dom around another, or even one way or the other around the same person, depending on mood and moment. It makes sense to me.

I think a lot of people just tend to view things in extremes. I mean really, what "is" a Dom/Domme? What "is" a sub? What "is" a switch? Shouldn't it be in how each person defines it for themselves? Everyone's different, why try to fit everyone under the same umbrella? For example, I want to start learning and exploring as a sub, but I'm not sure I'd want to be in a 24/7 D&S relationship. If I were dating someone, I'd want it to be part of our relationship, but not the entire basis of it. Others might dream of being an owned slave. There's nothing wrong with either, but I think a lot of people are more inclined to think of the owned slave as being a true sub rather than the person who might want to submit in the bedroom but not in every aspect of their lives. To them, their definition is a certain way, and things that don't fit don't count, like switching. And there's nothing wrong with their definition, they just need to be open-minded enough to accept that definitions that aren't exactly the same as theirs can be just as valid.

[lucy]

I've been reading through this thread and it kinda, yeah, left me sad. There's all this talking about us folks in the lifestyle are soooo openminded and welcoming to different points of views but when it comes down to actually act accordingly all that talking appears to be a lot of hipocrisy.

I think one of the reasons why switches are looked down upon may be that they are crossing the neatly drawn borders between subs and Doms and by doing that they "threaten" some peoples' image of themselves, or even their identity.

[Mothra!!!]

I've been reading through this thread and it kinda, yeah, left me sad. There's all this talking about us folks in the lifestyle are soooo openminded and welcoming to different points of views but when it comes down to actually act accordingly all that talking appears to be a lot of hipocrisy.

*sigh* I hear ya.

I think one of the reasons why switches are looked down upon may be that they are crossing the neatly drawn borders between subs and Doms and by doing that they "threaten" some peoples' image of themselves, or even their identity.

I'd say that if a person is truly secure in his/her/hir identity as a dom(me), sub, whatever, then the fact that other people do not categorize themselves in exactly the same way shouldn't make any difference. And one won't ever been viewed as the Most Dominant Dom of All or Subbiest Sub Ever by trying to negate the choices of others. I think that dom/sub tendencies, like gender identity and sexual orientation, can be far more fluid and less a matter of "either/or" than is commonly believed.

[ghostgirl]

*sigh* I hear ya.



I'd say that if a person is truly secure in his/her/hir identity as a dom(me), sub, whatever, then the fact that other people do not categorize themselves in exactly the same way shouldn't make any difference.

At the risk of making myself instant persona non grata, why do we care so much? A personal level of comfort with my own needs/desires, feelings, and identity and the companionship of kindred spirits is, imo, far more likely to bring me happiness and fun than seeking the validation of others who can't relate to me.

...if a person is truly secure in his/her/hir identity as a switch....

[Mothra!!!]

At the risk of making myself instant persona non grata, why do we care so much? A personal level of comfort with my own needs/desires, feelings, and identity and the companionship of kindred spirits is, imo, far more likely to bring me happiness and fun than seeking the validation of others who can't relate to me.

...if a person is truly secure in his/her/hir identity as a switch....

Well, that's sorta my point too

But unless I'm reading the entire thread wrong, it sounds like thir and others have been frustrated by trying to interact merely on a casual level with folks who can't even grasp the concept of being a switch. That gets tiresome after you've run into it enough times, especially when you're just looking for some friendly discussion on an email list or are trying to socialize at a munch. Having encountered similar attitudes in an entirely different context, I can sympathize.

But you're right: ultimately you've got to do what makes you happy and content and ignore the naysayers.

[ghostgirl]

Well, that's sorta my point too

i didn't miss it, Mothra

[thir]

..unless I'm reading the entire thread wrong, it sounds like thir and others have been frustrated by trying to interact merely on a casual level with folks who can't even grasp the concept of being a switch. That gets tiresome after you've run into it enough times, especially when you're just looking for some friendly discussion on an email list or are trying to socialize at a munch. Having encountered similar attitudes in an entirely different context, I can sympathize.

My point exactly, and I am not used to that where I come from and so was seeking an explanation, plus I think that there is enough pressure on non-mainstream people that we should stick together. Thirdly, I do not like the tendency by some to be one-wayish and down talk other kinds of paths because, as I have seen and read, newcomers at times try desperately to fit into a box where they really do not belong, because they have been told that that is the way to be. It can be heart-wrenching to listen to and makes me furious.

But you're right: ultimately you've got to do what makes you happy and content and ignore the naysayers.

I agree, that is the way to do it. Never mind the self-appointed 'nobility' and dogma, let's be heretics ;-)

[leo9]

I've been reading through this thread and it kinda, yeah, left me sad. There's all this talking about us folks in the lifestyle are soooo openminded and welcoming to different points of views but when it comes down to actually act accordingly all that talking appears to be a lot of hipocrisy.

I think one of the reasons why switches are looked down upon may be that they are crossing the neatly drawn borders between subs and Doms and by doing that they "threaten" some peoples' image of themselves, or even their identity.

Yep, you've hit the thumb right on the nail there. And one of the ironic things is that, as shadowcast said, a lot of people come into the scene as subs and then discover a dom side {hugs thir}.

It really does look as if most BDSM people can go both ways, it's just that some strongly prefer one way over the other. So if this means we shouldn't make distinctions (which I don't believe, but for purposes of argument...) then logically, we should be discarding the categories "Dom" and "sub" and classing everyone as different kinds of switch. I don't advocate it myself, because all terms are useful so long as you remember that the map is not the territory, but it's more logical than discarding the category of "switch".