Does an interest in BDSM indicate a pattern of abuse in earlier life?

[Cleo671]

very true..
but usually the seeds of abuse are sown way before
people enter relationships as adults..

and in that case..
they don't even know or differentiate whether
they do have a choice or not..

because they don't know any better.

[Artemis]

My father believed in corporal punishment and so I got my fair share of "whippings" while I was younger. It is a very effective method of modifiying behavior. It is effective even now that I am a grown woman. My Master, should I do something deserving of punishment, knows that punishing me with a whipping would be effective. I have a high pain threshold and do get regular spankings/canings but being told I need to be punished for something I've done is what hurts the most...the whipping just reinforces that in my mind and is a reminder to never do whatever it was again.

Now...was I abused as a child? No, I don't believe so. Were the whippings I got as a child part of the reason that I am interested in BDSM today? Possibly so...my early fantasies were more about rape and restraint than whippings/canings though. I know people that were abused as children and I've seen their self-destructive behavior patterns. To my knowledge, nothing I've done has been self-destructive, in fact quite the opposite is true. I am in a loving relationship with a mature man and I am quite happy with all of our activities. We've yet to have any kind or arguement/fight actually. I don't know many other women my age that can say that about their relationships. Usually I hear things like "I hate when he does...." or "I wish he would/wouldn't do....". I've been asked before if I'm lying when I say my Master/boyfriend and I don't argue. It's not the norm nowadays I suppose.

(Sowwy if I got a bit off topic there...)

[Spitman]

Does an interest in BDSM indicate a pattern of abuse in earlier life?

Not necessarily. I don't think a lifelong inclination towards bdsm can be explained by a few well deserved beatings as a small child, especially as others similarly treated showed no such interest. But it may be so in some cases.

Is it because we were taught to admire saints and martyrs who suffered terrible tortures, and as small children we were constantly exposed to graphic illustrations of martyrs in churches and religious books? At an impressionable age I was encouraged to believe that sacrifice is good, and we should admire tortured people, but sex is dirty.

With the awakenings of sexuality, after years of single sex education in total isolation from the opposite sex, as an adolescent I found bdsm exciting, and read lots of books that depicted violence and torture, increasingly in a sexual context, but without the opportunity to share my sexual thoughts and feelings, which the culture I grew up in regarded as unclean.

As an adult I have learned from many kinds of experience, and that of others of both sexes, to understand the elements of sexuality and where they come from. I am able to have a sexual relationship that does not involve bdsm, and I would prefer that to coercing a partner into doing things that she doesn't enjoy.

I believe in individual freedom, including the freedom of women to exercise choice in how and when they participate in sexual play. On the way I have acquired knowledge and skills that enable me to participate fully in a bdsm relationship that also respects the woman and her thoughts and feelings.

The wonder of fantasy, though, is the limitless way it opens up new and unexplored avenues in the mind, enhancing both pleasure and mutual understanding.

[Syvlangod]

perhaps.
Abuse to innocents is an abhorrent crime and should be pounished most harshly, drawn and 1/4ing would be my decision.
Having said that allow the tables to turn for a moment, the victim is ignorant of why the abuse is occurring and what is sought by the abuser. The victim is almost irresitably drawn to a desire to placate/please the abuser and although ignorant of the term, enters into a kind of psuedo sub space where pain/pleasure are mixed and mingled to the point where all that is craved is the stimulation, there is no difference between pain and pleasure. This is the formula for the creation of a painslut by the way but that is another topic. There are many facets to what constitutes a submissive but for the purposes of your inquiry only two matter
1. the desire to please, deeply ingrained in every submissive, when coupled with a harsh background and deep rooted memories of failing to liove up to expectations the Dominant can tap a near limitless well of controlling excercises. One of my earliest subs was a formner straight A student who had flunked out of college and needed to be 'punished' for her failure. BDSM as therapy
2. the desire to NOT be responsible. This is a theme that runs the entirety of the bdsm spectrum but to painfully simplify it, when a sub is tied or Dominated she surrenders all responisbility and thus achieves total freedom, a return to the helplessness of childhood perhaps or merely a device to surrender all sources of stress, I have met both types, the female lawyer who kneels so as to have absoultely no thought except to accept and serve and the insecure sub who doesn't want to have to decide what to do.
the issue of abuse victims who might become DOM so as to perpetuate abuse also exists, however the BDSM community is very well regulated by tiself and such 'monsters' are quickly detected and dealt with, usually permanently.

[Cleo671]

Taking part of the listed definition in here as ill-use..
we had an interesting case in the last week or so in Sydney, front page news etc.
This 27 yr old man had gone missing with this 12 year old girl.
It wasn't an abduction per se, but this was insinuated in all papers.
The question arose of why a 12 year old girl would leave the house the man shared with his de-facto/common law wife (9 months pregnant with two other children below the age of 3).

It then came about that she also shared this house at times, and was in the family's life as well.
Her parents were all over the news telling her to come home.
Her grandmother stated that this wasn't right.

Subsequently, more came out, this man's partner was 12 when he had met her. An obvious pattern.
It can be 'surmised' that once she became a 'mother', he lost interest and sought another girl, who knows.
This woman in the last two weeks gave birth to their third child, she is on the news stating that 'all children need their fathers' i.e. implying her partner (who at this time was in hiding with this girl).

In the last three days, they were spotted, a person recognising their faces telephoned the police, they were sharing a flat further out in the suburbs, after his arrest, the 12 year old girl prophessed her love, and that she wanted to still see him, although she agreed to the AVO which banned him from contacting her (he'll be sentenced anyway)..

BUT.. she wasn't maltreated by him, but it's 'ill use' in such a way that he somehow justified his actions to this girl, taking advantage in some way.

Now this girls first experience, with this man will surely influence her in some way in the future, and no one will know which direction it will go.
Is it possible that other events in her home life led her to seek some sort of comfort that a family unit such as that of this man and his partner offered?
Did she equate sex with affection and love?
What method did he use to gain trust in this 12 year old girl?
His partner, now 22, upon seeing all this, probably didn't know, perhaps this 12 year old girl acted as a babysitter as well..

but overrall....she might have consented to it as she was willingly with him missing for nearly two weeks, but that still doesn't mean that it isn't ill treatment.
Utilising a person's mind in this way is still abuse.
He is a predator nonetheless.

The women did not know any different, as they were (both) young girls at the time, and which 12 year old girl has the experience to differentiate, especially if her home life is dysfunctional?

[Finding_Fantasy]

I have not read the three pages of replies as my poor eyes are so tired, but I will reply to the origanal post.

I do not believe that someone who is involved in BDSM is a case of abuse...at least not in a great many. Yes, there are people who are submissive/masocists because that is all they know. It;s what they are used to, and even bad things are hard to stay away from. It;s like a man who has been in prison most of life. He may hate being in prison, loathe it, and dream of freedom in the outside world, but as soon as he is out on his own, he desperately wants to return because it is what he has been used to for a good portion of his life.

On the other hand, dominants that have been abused in the past may be dominant for the purpose of "revenge" To assure themselves that they are no longer the victims and can assert their power on someone else. (These people should be avoided at all cost in my opinion and these are the ones that give us a bad name)

That being said, I was not ever abused...at least not while I was a child. My paretns rarely laid a hand on me other than the odd spanking...though all my father had to do was give me "the look". I was in an abusive relationship when I was in my early 20's though but I had already been aware of my interest.

Did my interest draw me to this guy? No. He was very nice and very sweet until we moved into an apartment together and, having been on his own for the first time and having more money than he knew what to do with, he went nuts with drugs and drinking which drove him to do some of the many things he had done to me. I know it isn't an excuse, but those are the facts all the same.

I think that BDSM is more like a regular relationship in more ways that people realise. We just focus more on the abused in this lifestyle than in the others because of the type of activities. I don't know what the statistics/ratios are, but that is my opinion. Because we have whip each other, we wonder and over analyse it.

[Master_chris]

I became interested in the topic when I was a younger, and I did know what it was untill I discoved move about BDSM on the web at the age of 15 - 16 years old.

sinces then I have grow to love it, and I also look forward to exploring differance topics with in the BDSM world.

[bobanthony]

I was never abused as a child. I did have some minor interest in BDSM in my teens, but only became really involved in my 50's.

I my case, at least, abuse had absolutely nothing to do with it.

[pandemonium]

I've stayed away from this because, the supporting information is going to piss people off and I can't help that.

In order to get an honest answer, we have to rely on information that has been gathered about paraphiliacs.That means we have to look at the information on sex offenders or paraphiliacs with an impulse disorder. Like it or not. It doesn't matter how you feel about the category.
And for the life of me, I can't find anything that doesn't say its not a 50/50 thing. We know that 50% of parapheliacs have been abused. Its been said that an obsession began to occur approximately around 12 years old.

I'm not a shrink, I'm just going from what I read so, I'm not trying to come off like an expert here.

[pandemonium]

Causes of Paraphilia Unclear
It is unclear what causes a paraphilia to develop. Psychoanalysts theorize that an individual with a paraphilia is repeating or reverting to a sexual habit that arose early in life. Behaviorists suggest that paraphilias begin through a process of conditioning. Nonsexual objects can become sexually arousing if they are repeatedly associated with pleasurable sexual activity. Or, particular sexual acts (such as peeping, exhibiting, bestiality) that provide especially intense erotic pleasure can lead the person to prefer that behavior. Although the origins of most paraphilias are not understood, in some cases there seems to be a predisposing factor such as difficulty forming person-to-person relationships.

http://health.discovery.com/centers/...araphilia.html

Kind of interesting for a Q & A http://www.faculty.sfasu.edu/reastma...LDISORDERS.htm

I'm looking for this website and it was freakin' perfect but I can' find it right now.

[Spitman]

That's interesting about the data coming from studies of offenders, and the predisposing factors in paraphilia (abnormal sexual practices).

I think a lot of wrong conclusions have come out of studies that have focused only on offenders, because there is more incentive to study offenders, and they are more accessible.

Without studies also carried out in the general population, it is easy to draw false conclusions.

For instance, how can something be regarded as an abnormal sexual practice, if we don't know how prevalent this practice is in the general population?

With today's freedom of access to discussions like this, maybe we can begin to understand the wider picture.

That aside, I would be far happier to agree that an interest in bdsm relates to the ability to form relationships, than to a history of abuse.

Whether bdsm is an example of paraphilia is another very good question! I believe fantasies involving some element that we include in the scope of bdsm are extremely common in the general population.

[pandemonium]

I think a lot of wrong conclusions have come out of studies that have focused only on offenders, because there is more incentive to study offenders, and they are more accessible.

I disagree. I do not disagree that there is more incentive, we as a society need to understand in order to recognize and to prevent/protect. Therefore, I strongly believe that the conclusions that are drawn are not in any way wrong. I also do not disagree that they are more accessable.
I'm trying to do this from memory, I believe that for anything to become abnormal is a continued obsession that lasts longer than 6 months and is the only way that one can find sexual release. And obviously it is anything that is beyond a vanilla heterosexual relationship. For a long time homosexual relationships were considered abnormal. And that changed. The problems begin when these "obsessions" are acted on. There's the line. This is inherently important because when looking at a pedaphile....they can't be treated. The only thing that is going to happen is that its going to escalate. (sp?)And that goes for any of your sexual predators. Thats good to know.
It is recognized that these relationships (BDSM) are not harmful providing they are consensual. That is recognized. Its still a paraphiliac.
And as a side note that is completely not related: there is a huge fear that if we as a society say that homosexuality is ok, whats to stop us from saying pedophiles are ok.......they are on the same list. See?
I don't think its a question of it being common, because whether we say its common in the general public doesn't make a difference. I mean, its 2004, I would be hard pressed to find a large population of people that didn't come from a dysfunctional abusive back ground.

[leo9]

Like a lot of contributors to this thread, my first answer to the question is "not with me". My childhood was loving and supportive. My mother spanked me exactly once - very clumsily and ineffectively, in blind anger - and it was her anger that hurt me then.

My difficulty in puberty was finding myself turned on by ideas of torture and slavery when I had been raised to believe that violence and oppression were the greatest evils.

I don't believe that there is a higher incidence of abusive childhoods among us, but I do suspect that because what we do has such power to release and relieve old hurts, BDSM people are more likely to have come to terms with past abuse and to be able to talk about it. So this may create a false impression that there are more abuse survivors here than in the vanilla world.

It's that well known effect where improved reporting creates the appearance of a greater problem.

[His_sweet_song]

to start with i should perhaps say that yes i was abused as a child....from the age of 11 to roughly just after i was 16 my stepfather felt he could use me sexually while my mother was out of the house.....and yes i have an interest in BDSM....but even i am still not sure if they are linked...for the interest and realisation didnt occur till after i had been married to my soon to be ex for over 7 yrs...after reading a book of all things and realising that the thought of being bound and spanked really turned me on...i slowly began to realise i in some way needed the pain to arrouse me.....although what occured with my stepfather contained no elements of bondage or pain whatsoever....in some ways was glad that he tended to not use the fishing rod on me the way he used it on my siblings as punishement...i have never gone through any self destructive behavior....to the point if i had ever thought of ending things i always thought that it would hurt others more than it would hurt me...for after all i would have been dead and everyone else would have been left grieving.

the arrousal/pain element is a very real physical reaction with me....elements of pain lead to a feeling of release...but i soon let my Sir know if the pain ever becomes too much.....

i am not really sure if my past lead to my present....but i am a stronger person for it even if that is a loving submissive person ......

[sinsinderella]

My need for the lifestyle is the result of real life experiences prior to the age of 18. I would like to share what happened to me, and my current understanding of myself in order to gain more healing, but I am too new here to expose myself this soon.

My story is long and involved. Could someone point me to where in the BDSM Library, it would be the best place to tell my story, in bits and pieces, as I gain the courage?

~~sinsinderella

[Mobius]

Right here in BDSM life would be the place.
I would suggest making a thread of your own, so we can find it quickly. If the moderators want it in a different locasion they will intervine.

I look forward to reading your tale with great anticipation.

[slavelucy]

Originally posted by His_sweet_song
i am not really sure if my past lead to my present....but i am a stronger person for it even if that is a loving submissive person ......

i was just re-reading through this thread and noticed this line - His_sweet_song, this is absolutely beautifully put and was what i was trying to say, just put MUCH better.

Even if there is a possibility that abuse can lead to an interest in BDSM, i think it would be wrong to assume that this is necessarily a negative thing, in fact, to have become a 'stronger, loving, submissive person' suggests that a person has let go of it and come out the other side.

sl

[AndrewBlack]

I totally agree with you both, it's how you have learned from previous experience, positive or negative that makes you who you are. I believe as long as you can move on, even negative experiences can make you smarter and stronger.

[lola]

I have never been abused. Not as an adult and not as a child either.

My daughter is 6, she has never been abused, not physically or verbally. I am convinced that one day, she will be a sub or a domme or maybe both. She ties stuff up all the time, tells me to choke her because it feels good and that she likes to cry.

I think that for the most part, you are what you are. I also think that if you are a submissive, and you live with or, in close proximity to, an abusive person that, they will likely be able to smell you out and take advantage of you. It doesn't mean that you are a sub because you were abused.

[allalone46]

I'm like Finding Fantisy. I was never abused, and my father only spanked me once in his life, and my mother never did, and I do know the look that he says thay both had theres, and that was all it took.

[leo9]

I also think that if you are a submissive, and you live with or, in close proximity to, an abusive person that, they will likely be able to smell you out and take advantage of you. It doesn't mean that you are a sub because you were abused.

Let us not blur the difference between Dominants and abusers, likewise between submissives and victim types.

I certainly agree that a Dom can usually sense when someone is sub even if sie is not flagging in any obvious way. (I know I can, I've sometimes surprised myself with the people for whom my detector has buzzed, and later found I was right.) And it does appear that abusive characters have an instinct for potential victims.

But most of the submissives I have known have not been victim types, on the contrary: outside the D/s relationship they are usually strong minded, even aggressive people whom any would-be abuser would walk wide around. And speaking just for myself, I am equally quick to avoid victim types.

[rob.wilson]

I have never been abused and I don't remember my mother or father ever raising their hand in anger either towards my brother or myself. My mother wore the pants in the family, and my father tended to be submissive to her. They been happily (yes happily) married for nearly 40 years.

So it's interesting to me that my brother has abused his ex-wife (she dumped is sorry butt after he broke her nose). He's calmed down a bit since then and the current relationship he's in seems better and calmer, although my brother seems to have a pool of anger in him.

I on the other hand am very much the pacifist and have often questioned why I enjoy BDSM because of my beliefs. In fact, sometimes I think I was to concerned about my ex-partners safety and was not "as abusive" as she would like me to be.

It's interesting how are lives are influenced by things.

[lola]

Let us not blur the difference between Dominants and abusers, likewise between submissives and victim types.

I certainly agree that a Dom can usually sense when someone is sub even if sie is not flagging in any obvious way. (I know I can, I've sometimes surprised myself with the people for whom my detector has buzzed, and later found I was right.) And it does appear that abusive characters have an instinct for potential victims.

But most of the submissives I have known have not been victim types, on the contrary: outside the D/s relationship they are usually strong minded, even aggressive people whom any would-be abuser would walk wide around. And speaking just for myself, I am equally quick to avoid victim types.

I did not mean to suggest that dominants are by nature abusers and, I certainly did not mean to suggest that all submissive persons are victims. That being said, if you are a sub and you were abused, which is kind of what the original question is about, the abuse probably did not cause the submissiveness. I have nothing but ancedotal evidence to support this theory of course but, it has proven itself to be true in spades, at least in my experience.

Were these strong minded submissives that you know abused early on?

[MrJerseyGuy]

I know this thread has been around for some time...but I just got around to reading it. No abuse in my case, either as a victim or as an abuser. I actually had a sickeningly normal upbringing. Likewise, my sub did as well.

I think it's hard to make a correlation because a lot of people suffered abuse as children. You can't really point to the small percentage who wind up with an interest in bdsm and say "AH HA! That's what caused it!" I'll bet if there were ever a study done on it, the percentage of abuse victims who wind up in the "lifestyle" is smaller than the percentage within the vanilla community.

It would be an interesting study.

[Pandora's Box]

Is an interest in BDSM a result of abuse in early life, or is abuse just a factor that many in BDSM lifestyles seem to share?

I have noticed that many people, both dominant and submissive, have had occurences of abuse earlier in their lives. Is a person's interest in BDSM the result of the abuse or is the person simply abused and then becomes interested in BDSM regardless of it?

Well I can't say I was abused physically. I do have some abandonment type issues regarding my father. Granted he never left, but he did desert us emotionally. I think that may be something that makes me like the close interpersonal levels of connection in a D/s relationship.

I do wonder if my desire to please was influenced by that. I think it was more of an issue when I was younger. I did some really stupid things for men. (Although I think that is a general truism for people.) As I've gotten older though, I've learned to set some boundaries in what I will and will not do and for what and whom. Oddly enough, in many ways D/s has actually helped me to define those boundaries better and feel a bit more in control of things.

I can't speak about physical abuse. Granted I don't like pain, but then the things I do like I tend to call "extreme sensation". It just doesn't cross the bridge over into real pain.


Interesting question, but I can't help but wonder instead of who involved in bdsm was abused, how many people who were abused got into bdsm? And does their particular brand of abuse correlate at all to their particular inclinations?

[chameleon]

Interesting question, but I can't help but wonder instead of who involved in bdsm was abused, how many people who were abused got into bdsm? And does their particular brand of abuse correlate at all to their particular inclinations?

That's the question that's been in my mind since the first post. Very much like the studies that falsely put an entire generation of childhood abuse survivors under suspicion as potential abusers, the methodology and conclusion are faulty. It makes as much sense to say, for instance, that since a large percentage of submissives had blonde female teachers in fifth grade, having a blonde female teacher in the fifth grade is a possible precipitating event in causing a person to become a submissive. As was pointed out, it makes more sense to take a group of children who were abused and follow them to see what percentage of them move into a BDSM lifestyle.

[tehya]

Hmmmmm a very touchy subject for me... since every male figure in my childhood abused me. However, I'd like us to look at this from a different angle.

I'm not saying I was abused because I am submissive, because I didn't even know there was a name for what I am until 9 months ago. But I think my abusers picked up on submissive traits (pleasing others, the need to serve, my willingness to see others happy, even at my own expense), and instead of nurturing these things, the abusers were able to twist them to their advantage. They wanted that power over me, and they took it.

Neither do I believe I am submissive because of the abuse. I'm definitely not looking for the abuse to continue. It was degrading, humiliating, and made me feel like I was a very bad girl.

I think what BDSM has done for me, is teach me that my submissive self is beautiful. That I can be myself, give all of myself over to my Master, and I can trust that he will care for me and see that NO harm comes to me. In effect, it has helped reverse the abuse and freed me from the past. Now I give the power over, not have it snatched away from me. Therein lies the freedom I have never had before in my life.

Master's tehya

[Laila]

Same here, very touchy topic and one that gave me sleepless night in this past year.

Especially because I have these split desires. For one I long for someone to take care of me, to guide me - but not crully or just because of the pain, and not to break me (again...) but to built me up through what we have together.

But then there is also that vanilla thing, that I long for...

Sometimes I just tell myself "Look, Vanilla is your healthy side... the other desires are the sick one..." Like I said, sleepless nights.

At the moment I am at that point where I think I should mix it - like to find someone who also likes both... Guh that is all so confusing!

Another things is that I am kinda repelled from the idea that someone enjoys hurting teh one he loves (or anybody at all for that matter).

I am rambling again...
But I don't think that it must be a result from abuse. Like that crap homosexuality (especially for women) would be.

[slavelucy]

I think what BDSM has done for me, is teach me that my submissive self is beautiful. In effect, it has helped reverse the abuse and freed me from the past. Now I give the power over, not have it snatched away from me. Therein lies the freedom I have never had before in my life.

*temporarily speechless*

tehya - most of your posts continue to leave me in awe of how well you put things. You have essentially said what i have been trying to say for much of this thread (especially the quoted bits), but in a much more succinct manner... and i can't begin to tell you how much i agree with you.

luce x

[tehya]

*temporarily speechless*

tehya - most of your posts continue to leave me in awe of how well you put things. You have essentially said what i have been trying to say for much of this thread (especially the quoted bits), but in a much more succinct manner... and i can't begin to tell you how much i agree with you.

luce x

Luce, hun, you are gonna have me blushing bright red (even though i do look good in red, lol)... It is fortunate to find kindred spirits along lifes travels. That I could put into words what you have been thinking is validation that many of us think alike. And just perhaps, your posts gave inspiration to my words! *smiles*

Master's tehya