O for Over-rated!

[YNHumiliator]

I just had to post again - those of you who criticise the Story of O are really missing the point - here is a woman who will submit to whatever her lover demands of her - surely this is the purest form of submission that any of us can really adhere to? Emotion can only really be experienced in real life. How any of you can criticise this book I will never understand. Time for bed for me !!!!!

Life is a bastard - Count Yorga, Vampire.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

First off, trust and communication are the two bases in an SM relationship. I think many, many people will agree with that.

I don't have anything else positive to say about that first post.

Secondly, I'm not missing the point of the Story of O and I haven't even read it. Someone that will submit to anyone and do anything her lover/dominant/master insists she do is not the epitome of submission, she is a dumbass, plain and simple.

Should we just start lobotomizing all of our submissives so all they can say is a monotone "Yes Sir" and "No Sir?" I think that would be desperately, distinctly and frighteningly boring. I, personally, like an intelligent submissive that can carry on a conversation. One that has a mind of her own and has enough respect for herself to say no, but also to explain why. If I just wanted someone I can turn on and have them do whatever I want them to and then give them away, I would simply log into any adult chat room and say "Hey baby, let's go fuck." and then wait for the twits to respond. It's brainless and insulting.

Emotion can be experienced by anyone at anytime in any medium. I met my wife online. We didn't physically ever meet or see each other for seven months, but we chatted on the internet, talked on the phone and were very emotional toward each other. That emotion GREW when we were together, but I feel insulted when I think my realtionship meant nothing just because it was online.

As I said, I have not read the Story of O and I probably won't. My wife has read it and written a book report on it. We have discussed it more than once and, just based on her impressions of the story, I don't think it's something I would find very interesting at all. Now, that doesn't mean that others of you are not entitled to your own opinions, nor does it mean that others of you shouldn't enjoy the story, but it does mean that my wife and I will disagree with you. Which is our right. If everyone had the same opinion of everything, then the world would be quite sullen and dull.

I look at the Story of O as I do any "Remotely-BDSM-related" work of fiction. It's a fantasy, it's a fiction, and it's a good story, but it should be taken just as that: a story. Just from what I have been told of it, it lacks any solid basis in reality and what happens to the characters in the story could probably never happen in real life. At least not without charges being filed.

I look at the Gor books in a similar way. Sure, they're great fiction, they're great reads, they're a bit chauvanistic for my tastes, but I wouldn't ever try to make my lifestyle mimic one of a Gorean one, because it's not possible. If my "slave" tells me she's not going to do something, I can't just trade her off. If she is especially displeasing, I cannot just drive a sword into her chest. It's not legal and it show a complete lack of any morals and conscience. Like I said, the books are great works of fiction, but they don't have much basis in reality. I would dare to say that 99.9% of all "Gorean" BDSM-lifestylers are online only, because I doubt seriuosly that most real-timers would take them terribly seriously.

Anyway, I'll put the soapbox away now and move on. And remember, this is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Finding_Fantasy]

It may be emotional to some aspect yes, but it is the utter lack of reality that ruins the whole story for me.

What I mean is this... This girl gets dropped off at this house by her boyfriend, is left there for, well quite some time. And who comes looking for her? No one. Not her friends, not her family. Nobody. At least not that I can recall.

Basically, if I am going to have something affect me, it's because it something that really could happen in reality. And I am not talking about JUST the submission, either. I am talking about the entire do-ability of the entire book. It's just someone's wild fantasy that, to me, is just that...a fantasy. If something is going to get to me it will be because I will honestky be able to say to myself "Hey! Yeah! That really could happen. That might be something I would do." But I find none of it possible.

And if that makes me less of a submissive than O because I want to keep my humanity, keep my own thoughts and mind, and not become an automaton, then I will be glad for that. But just because The Story of O doesn't throw me into rapture doesn't mean I will not or cannot submitt to the extent of abities.

Like my Master said, it is like Gor, it's a good story, but I will not...no sorry...cannnot give it any more than that.

And again, like my Master said (again) But that's just my opinion (adding my own) But because my opinion differs...that doesn't make it wrong

[YNHumiliator]

Well the Story of O certainly appears to have a lot to answer for!
It seems to generate quite a lot of interest for an average read?

Just because I cited intensity as an important factor in an SM relationship doesn't mean that I value that soley above anything else! Of course you need respect and trust from both partners. It is a partnership after all. In my experience you "need" intensity in every type of sexual realtionship be it vanilla, SM or whatever - if you haven't got it whats the point?

I disagree that O is a dumbass! Just because she gives her whole being to another doesn't make her stupid or weak and I'm not suggesting we lobotomize anyone! O's character in the book foregoes her own self for that of another. She's certainly not weak in anyway that I can see. In real life I've never met a 24/7 slave - I presume they are few and far between - but I think the level of commitment required to actually go down that path takes enormous mental strength not weakness.

Its a positive thing that people disagree. If we didn't have differing opinions we'd have no discussions and would learn nothing, just sit in isolation thinking we were always right. Which obviously we can't be or we wouldn't be discussing The story of O at some length!

FF said that O is an automaton but thats not how I see her. At the end of the novel she is still her own person. She's strong not weak. At least that is how I see it. Thats my opinion and obviously you are free to disagree. I'm just expressing my point of view....yeah I know....once more.

[nikki]

Love is a very intense emotion, if you love someone (and i'm assuming that you all love eachother, right?!), then you have intensity, plus all the other important things, trust, equality, etc, because love breeds those things, if you don't have them, then it's probably because the relationship is not based on mutual love. i suppose a one-off scene can be intense, due to the build up and the novelty, but thats not the same as the intensity you get with a longer-term Master/slave relationship.

i don't believe that O was weak, or that these things could not happen in reality, the author simply chose not to weigh the story down with practicalities. i submit myself, and i believe it makes me stronger, i feel stronger with every submission i make. i also believe Gorean philosophy has much to offer in the way of guidance, but it does tend towards romanticising the lifestyle a little too much to take it all totally literally, unless you want to spend your life in an assylum.....which has its plus points... *shivers*

Submission is not weak, but love can make you do dumbass things

nikki

[BDSM_Tourguide]

... are not weak. I didn't say that. It takes a great deal of strength and courage to submit to someone and put your complete trust in someone. It does not, in my opinion, take much courage to blindly do whatever someone says without caring for yourself or your well-being.

Like I said in my previous post, those things could happen in real life, but probably not without charges being filed. I think I would want my submissive's written and notorized consent before I dropped her off at a stranger's house for a few months to be trained. I would also like to think she would enjoy some time to prepare for her extended stay. You know? Notify her family and whatnot. Those sorts of things tend to keep the FBI uninvolved.

Gor is romantic? Have you read the books?

Asylum: Been there, done it, have the shirt. No really. I do.

As for the previous post I missed for some reason:

I know one real-life 24/7 TPE slave. She does what she's told, when she's told, but even though she has completely given herself to submission, she and her master still have a contract that they follow. She is allowed to have her hardest limits not pushed. She also trusts her master not to do something that would hurt her or their relationship, like giving her away to a complete stranger on a moment's notice. I admire her level of commitment, but I also admire the fact that she didn't just give in and lose her "self" in the process of submitting.

As a famous Greek guy once said: If one does not have one's self, what does one ever really have?

[nikki]

Well, i think it's romantic...*sulks*

'Course i've read some, i wouldn't form an opinion about something i knew nothing about.....obviously my idea of romance may not be the same as someone elses....*frowns* ...or anyone elses...but still...its what i think



nikki

[bunnyrabbit48]

Well, Story of O is written back in 1954, at the time, Pauline Reage has to hide her name as this kind of story is forbidden. So she has the fear of being find out and punished by the French govt. at the time. Having said that, it is conservative by today's standard, but quite daring back in those days.

[BDSM_Tourguide]

Of all the words I have ever heard the Story of O called, conservative has never been one of them.

[YNHumiliator]

Well it must be Christmas - I'm entirely in agreement with BDSM Tourguide!!!!! *Chuckles* Conservative isn't a word I'd use to describe "O".

All the best at Christmas to everyone!!!

[bunnyrabbit48]

I must be very liberal. Let me clarify, when I said conservative, I mean the nature of the BDSM equipment, a lack of today's modern torture toy like TENS unit, violet wand, etc. Because the story is written back in 1950's, they don't have electrical devices or mechanical springs, fuck toys, like the ones from Paradise Electro simulation, or the ones we seen in that Andrew Blake movie "Les Femmes Erotiques", among other toys.

[agp_millie]

mmmmmm,
Sounds delicious, where can i go to see that?

Happy New Year .. in all the meanings of 'happy' (smile)

[bunnyrabbit48]

any store should have it available for rent. or go to his web site and buy the DVD if you want. it's www.andrewblake.com

[passenger]

from what I read so far (I must say I didn't read all) I have to say, that YOU, BDSM Tourguide, have a girl to be proud of!
Getting into the thread (and explaining why I think Finding Fantasy is stuck in my mind)
I think, that trust is very! important and giving your girl away to make her show her submission is something, that I never could find exciting, especially because this would make her feel perhaps like a thing, what is no fun anymore. This is not erotic to me (my opinion - but as YN Humilator says, as a fantasy it is not wrong to like it).
Coming back to Finding Fantasy, your opinion, you showed in this thread about O makes me want to ask you, if you have a sister, perhaps living in central europe

[emmaadmirer]

there are more Finding fantasies around, than you think
I like your posts (und weiss du sprichst die selbe Sprache wie ich)
A big Hihi for my curiosity!
Ohh, have I been bad? (so the pictures I sent to the Forum weren't that bad - I began to feel a little nervous)

Yours Hihi

[agp_millie]

The Sexperimental Farm had it's Annual Day Trip to the seaside recently and wasn't so relaxing for us poor wvs*

After our customary high Protein breakfast, we spent the whole day being fed by not only all the Doctors at the SFL but also any passing gentlemen. Just the thought of 'O' at the end of the day was enough to make us all extremely nauseous. Also my mouth stayed 'O' shaped for three days after. (sigh!)

(smile)





* WVS= woman voluntary servant, now supersedes agp [assistant guinea pig] due to Animal Rights complaining it was demeaning to guinea pigs)

[Curtis]

YNHumiliator seems to want to open this thread up to a wider-ranging discussion of post-war French erotic literature. Since that suits my purposes, I'll oblige him.
I liked, but did not love, The Story of O. I read it first in my teens and liked it well enough to re-read twice in the (ahem) 25-30 years since. I don't like the characters of the original lover who gives her up (now THAT is a weak character! He definitely did not deserve her.), OR Sir Stephen (who seems to me to be too uncaring of O's feelings -- and well-being, for that matter). I like O, though sometimes she drives me crazy, and I don't find her to be a notably weak character, taken all-in-all. I saw the movie fifteen years after I read the book, but still liked the movie better (it was the equivalent of a Readers' Digest version, cutting out the slow parts, but retaining the overall feel and thrust of the book).
I've only read Return to the Chateau once and have much less recollection of it, but I do recall liking it better than the original. I seem to remember that Sir Stephen was better handled in the sequel and that the sex was better. Does anyone else have an opinion?
The Image I read because I had seen (and loved) the movie. It's probably the best BDSM movie I have ever seen. The book was good, but kind of pale and colorless when compared to the (ironically, black-and-white) film. The rose garden, cafe dining and concluding whipping scenes were especially better in the film, though the book delves more deeply into the narrator's thoughts and feelings and ends on a more satisfying note.
Emmanuel and its sequels were, to me, a total loss, both as movies and as books. The characters were uninteresting, the situations were uninteresting and the sex was badly written (and too little of it!).
I found it interesting that YNHumiliator jumped from The Story of O to The Image. Most of the people I know lump "O" in with "Emmanuel" and have never heard of "L' Image". We must be a better class of pervert.
(This is my first post. I hope it rejuvenates the thread.)

[mvasillio]

However tame it might be now, The Story of O seems to have been something of a landmark at the time and helped to pave the way for other things. I don't think we'd still be discussing it if that wasn't so.

[j]

Reviving such an old thread has an almost ghoulish quality. But O is ageless, even if her author, Dominique Aury, died some years ago, her lifelong secret revealed to all.

I owe her my first conscious BDSM thrills, even though it is not at all a BDSM book. This link gives some interesting trivia and pictures.

http://www.storyofo.co.uk/Origins.html

My own interest in this thread, however, resides in the mention of l'Image (The Image). This one IS a BDSM book, much 'harder' than O, yet with a very good literary quality. This is not surprising - the writer, Jean de Berg, is in fact Jeanne de Berg, well-known Mistress and real-life wife of Alain Robbe-Grillet. Many of its themes (such as the use of photographs in the narrative) and much of its style indicate, to me, that the Master had more than a hand in writing it. (It is customary to call an established French writer 'Maître'. Robbe-Grillet is fond of inserting hard-core BDSM scenes in his abstruse, yet highly interesting books and movies. Now you know why so many literature teachers read and study him).

I ramble... sorry. But I would be VERY grateful for the following files:

Story of O in French (I have a passable translation)
The Image in French and/or English.

Needless to say I would be happy to trade some of my files if requested!

[Texxx]

This book has awakened so many to what is good and honest in this fine life we live....shame that so many turned away from that feeling in their belly....

That feeling that what is right .... is not longer acceptable in OUR real time life....save for few that truly understand.

Texxx
Gorean Master

[YNHumiliator]

Wow - Jeanne (ok ok I've been away! Yeah I know - a long time!!) - you have me pondering - do you get your students to study "The Image" - I can only imagine how interesting the class discussions are?

YN

"...you got a boyfriend that looks like a girlfriend" - The Killers."