What do we mean by sadist?

[brwneydgirl]

The Marquis de Sade was said to involve himself in sexual violence. I don't necessarily think of sadists as being sexually violent...but maybe that's my own delusion.

The question I have is, does the sexual sadist gain pleasure from the infliction of pain...no matter if the one receiving the pain is willing or not willing?

[Andyfellow]

Oh yeah,
The feeling of omnipotence when dealing with a totally submissive thing - it's very heart surging. The power thing is very strong, especially when remorse is not an option.

[thir]

The question I have is, does the sexual sadist gain pleasure from the infliction of pain...no matter if the one receiving the pain is willing or not willing?

Complex question, I think. Maybe that depends on the person. Of course, the ethical answer is no good sadist gets pleasure from an unwilling person, but is that merely political correctness? Is the answer a little more complicated? Many people have fantasies - maybe masturbation fantasies, but nevertheless - about non-consensual sessions, which migt also include pain. To read about and fantasize about, but never to be done in real life? And some have the profile of seeing how much the sub, not neccesarily into pain at all, can and will take for their Master/Mistress? That is not non-consensual, but maybe not 'willing' as in 'enjoying pain' either. Consensual in that the person will try to please the Master/Mistress.

To me it is clear that a person tormenting an unwilling victim is a criminal, as much as a rapist is a criminal and not a lover. But what may happen between two people in the BDSM world is a more complex thing.

[dorolta]

Complex question, I think. Maybe that depends on the person. Of course, the ethical answer is no good sadist gets pleasure from an unwilling person, but is that merely political correctness? Is the answer a little more complicated? Many people have fantasies - maybe masturbation fantasies, but nevertheless - about non-consensual sessions, which migt also include pain.

I agree with you in everything. I have masochist fantasies where i am accused in a shop with theft. Security guards torture me until i admit the crime, and after that they punish me painfully and shamefully in front of all customers. Shop assistants and customers accompany them in torturing me. It would be a crime in real life, but i love these fantasies.

[thir]

I agree with you in everything. I have masochist fantasies where i am accused in a shop with theft. Security guards torture me until i admit the crime, and after that they punish me painfully and shamefully in front of all customers. Shop assistants and customers accompany them in torturing me. It would be a crime in real life, but i love these fantasies.

Yees.....;-)

[brwneydgirl]

some have the profile of seeing how much the sub, not neccesarily into pain at all, can and will take for their Master/Mistress?

I find this to be a fascinating idea. The submissive willing to see "how much they can take" for their dominant. Are there those, though, who actually get off on pain? I mean...I know there are masochists but do they physically derive pleasure from pain (and in that case, do they take anesthesia for dental procedures?) or is it more that they take pleasure from the pleasure they see in their dominant when they've "taken" a significant amount of pain? What is the feeling the submissive receives? Physical pleasure? Is it a feeling of "see how tough I am?" ?

[dorolta]

What is the feeling the submissive receives? Physical pleasure? Is it a feeling of "see how tough I am?" ?

I was a kid about 6 years when i was already excited about torture scenes. As an adolescent i fantasized about being whipped topless in the school yard or rolled in thorny shrubs by my schoolmates naked. My arousal didn't come from love to my torturers, as it doesn't come from love to the security guards in my above mentioned fantasies. Nor comes the sexual arousal simply from the pain, the dentist's treatment or a headache. It comes, as i see it, from the feeling of being submitted to torture, having the pain inflicted on me intentionally. In the case of my love relationship with my sweet Mistress, love increases the pleasure of painful submission. But humiliation is necessary. It is the way at least in my case.

[leo9]

I was a kid about 6 years when i was already excited about torture scenes.

Me too! I had some books about pirates that I got that special thrill from.

As an adolescent i fantasized about being whipped topless in the school yard or rolled in thorny shrubs by my schoolmates naked. My arousal didn't come from love to my torturers, as it doesn't come from love to the security guards in my above mentioned fantasies. Nor comes the sexual arousal simply from the pain, the dentist's treatment or a headache. It comes, as i see it, from the feeling of being submitted to torture, having the pain inflicted on me intentionally.

Exactly so. And it's the bottom's submission to the pain I inflict, hir helpessness in bondage or hir obedient acceptance of punishment, that makes it exciting for me as a Dom. If I hurt someone by accident, I'll apologise even if it's my sub: it wouldn't be enjoyable for either of us.

In the case of my love relationship with my sweet Mistress, love increases the pleasure of painful submission.

And for me as a Dom. I can whip casual play partners and enjoy it, but it's a pale imitation of the joy of making a loved one suffer for my pleasure.

But humiliation is necessary. It is the way at least in my case.

I'm guessing you need it to make you fully aware that you're the helpless one, the one who must and should take whatever pleases your Mistress, so that you can get into that joyful acceptance of suffering that I discovered.

It's all about who can do it, and who submits to having it done.

[dorolta]

And it's the bottom's submission to the pain I inflict, hir helpessness in bondage or hir obedient acceptance of punishment, that makes it exciting for me as a Dom.

Thank you for the understanding analyse, Sir, and showing me the dominant side of the issue. I am in full agreement with you.

[cgeldof]

sadism is enjoying inflicting pain and bdsm is more about enjoying taking power away from a person. i think. imo

[thir]

Are there those, though, who actually get off on pain? I mean...I know there are masochists but do they physically derive pleasure from pain (and in that case, do they take anesthesia for dental procedures?) or is it more that they take pleasure from the pleasure they see in their dominant when they've "taken" a significant amount of pain? What is the feeling the submissive receives? Physical pleasure? Is it a feeling of "see how tough I am?" ?

I think there are all kinds of answers to that one! I once know a person who was into heavy pain, and who did get off on it. All kinds of pain, including an accident he had, where he broke several ribs and had internal injuries. He said he wished he could have prolonged that, or done it again. Though most people I have talked with were into some kinds of pain, and not others. Most did not like dentist pain, or headaches, or such, but liked pain which for them had a sexual effect. My other husband was a piercer earlier, and I noticed then how many liked being pierced, for instance, and wished they could do it over and over again. Many like the pain in connection with a specific situation and can get off in that situation, a woman I knew climaxed while being spanked or whipped, and it is my impression that this is not that unusual. I compare it to fetichism, because like with fetichist the magic is that it works every time.

I have met people who did the 'I am pushing myself to the limit' thing which you also mention. People of a tribal orientation who did this outside of a bdsm situation. For myself, I get a spirtual cleansing out of a serious beating going right up to, and a little over, my limits. I also take pain as pleasing my Dom, and it does excite me. But I do take painkillers for head aches, and other illness induced pain ;-)

[dorolta]

I once know a person who was into heavy pain, and who did get off on it. All kinds of pain, including an accident he had, where he broke several ribs and had internal injuries. He said he wished he could have prolonged that, or done it again.

Here you taught me something i didn't know. Thank you very much!