Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
I don't know of any cases where a person was declared brain dead and then came back to report on such events. Not saying it can't happen, but I haven't heard of any documented cases. Only stories. Still, even if it did happen, all that tells us is that we still have a ways to go to understand what brain death really is. There may be (and probably are) processes going on in there that we haven't yet learned to measure. Perfectly normal, electrochemical processes.
I wish I had names, but my memory...But these were in fact documented cases, by at least one brain surgeon doing research, and others, doctors and some physicists. Totally scientific, no hocus pocus, which was what made it so interesting. The one brain surgeon got interested because he always claimed that people in a coma did not experience anything, then he landed in a coma himself and did experience things. Since that was contrary to everything he knew about the brain, he got interested.

I am not saying there is anything super natural about this, and I do not quite understand why that is always assumed. But, as I have mentioned earlier, death has become complicated! And people who have been D-E-A-D including no heart beat and no brain activity have actually come back. And finally the - IMO - rather dogmatic science have woken up to the fact that there really is something here they do not understand, and which aught to be researched.


There are a lot of motivations. A big one is the need for people to believe that they are special,
Well, we are. Scientifically proven unique ;-)

and being created by a magical being who wants to give them some eternal reward or something fills that need.
I think the longing for justice is also probably part of it.

But I think the biggest motivation for belief is fear of death. Some people just need the comfort of believing they will carry on after death.
No offense, but it is my impression that US people are unusually afraid of death, even to the worship-youth culture. Maybe not all take it quite so seriously. I have toyed with the idea that maybe Americans, being to individualistic, have less feeling of a continuity, or a feeling that things 'move on' after them??

I also have the feeling that the bad religions (as opposed to good ones harming no one) makes people afraid that there is in fact an afterlife, that is hell, and that they must be on the right side to avoid that.
No offense meant to religious people here, but that is to me the most abusive idea you can plant in anyone's mind!

As I've said before, you can provide all the evidence against the existence of something and still not prove that it doesn't exist. And while the "absence of proof is not proof of absence", you could show that the absence of evidence for the existence of gods IS evidence of absence.
I cannot see that logic. Do you think science knows = everything?

Most people don't believe that unicorns exist, but you cannot prove they don't exist. It's the absence of any evidence to show that they DO exist that lets us claim that they are not real. And that can only be a tentative claim, though very strong, because we cannot prove that one will not pop up on the White House lawn tomorrow morning. Just don't hold your breath.
They might have existed in much older times, hence the myths now ;-))

The same holds true for gods. No matter how many people believe that gods exist, the lack of any evidence to show that they exist is a big mark against them.
Scientifically speaking, but you know that faith is nothing to do with science.

The fact that there are so many different interpretations of gods is a very strong indicator that, at least, just one God does not exist. And the fact that even those who DO believe in this one God all have different opinions about his expectations of them is another large piece of evidence against Him.
I think it would be more weird if many different cultures had the exact same image and the same ideas..

So yeah, I cannot prove that anyone's god does not exist, or that any gods do not exist. But I'm not making the claim here! If I was to claim that gods cannot exist, then I could be expected to prove it. It is those who DO make the claim that gods, or a God, exist that need to provide the evidence. But all we get are suppositions and gobbledygook. And the charlatans continue raking in the money.
I am with you on the money thing, and I do think that bad religion is harmful - very much so.

Now, my God, or rather Goddess, does exist, and my Gods deliver. Because she is just another word for nature, and the sun does in fact deliver and gives us life :-) She is beautiful beyond belief and ingenious beyond belief and gives us access anything we need, but she does not cuddle her creations and does not pull her punches.

When I die, I do not know what will happen, except I will be a bundle of building blocks for her to play around with again. My individual being is gone, maybe, but my bits and pieces are eternal, and that is good enough for me.