T:There are no "good" religions. There are only some that are less bad than others. They all seem to require a belief in something that cannot be shown to be real. They all seem to promote poor thought processes.

I disagree. The religions that are non-dogmatic and which are considered private do not hurt anyone, and thoughts are free, you know. Religion has fuddled people's head's in the past and can do so now, agreed. But not necessarily. I think the reason I can be more tolerant here is that my home country is not very religious and my present one not much more. It is not a problem.

Thir: makes people afraid that there is in fact an afterlife, that is hell, and that they must be on the right side to avoid that.No offense meant to religious people here, but that is to me the most abusive idea you can plant in anyone's mind!
T:I don't know. I think it runs a close second to telling people that they are born bad and can only be redeemed by believing in an invisible man in the sky who has a fetish for human sacrifice.


Same thing. For many it is fear of hell that gets you in line.

Thir: I cannot see that logic. Do you think science knows = everything?

T: [I]Not at all,

But yes. Your main arguments are 1) that science does not know of any such thing (people having visions while in coma or some sort of dead), therefore it does not exist, and when people say they have in fact had such experiences they are lying, or it is magic or religious humbug. Because the dogmatic book of science does not know of this, even if you also acknowledge that we know little about how the brains works.

Thir: I think it would be more weird if many different cultures had the exact same image and the same ideas..
Thorne: Even if that were so, where are the cultural differences between Lutherans and Catholics? Between Baptists and Episcopalians?
Between Sunni and Sufi? These aren't cultural differences, they are religious differences. Different interpretations of the magical words of ancient books.

Oh yes, they are, there are major different cultures within a nations borders.

Thir Now, my God, or rather Goddess, does exist, and my Gods deliver. Because she is just another word for nature, and the sun does in fact deliver and gives us life :-) She is beautiful beyond belief and ingenious beyond belief and gives us access anything we need, but she does not cuddle her creations and does not pull her punches.

Thorne: And does she answer your prayers? Does she protect you from harm? Nature is a capricious bitch with no concern for our welfare.

Correct. Therefor no prayers, she is simply nature, and everything else.

Thorne: If we had to rely only on her mankind would still be huddling in caves, wondering where our next meal was coming from.

You do not get it, Thorne. Nature fed us, roots, berries, fruit, grain, occasionally meat. Where did that come from, if not nature?

Thorne: It's from the advances of science and technology that we are able to build structure to protect us from nature's ravages; that we can transport food and medicines across deserts and oceans; that we can live well into our 80's and 90's rather than dying in our 30's.

Where do you think your meals come from? Build in a lab? Where do the cattle graze, where does the wheat grow? Of course we live off nature.

There have been many technical advances - what has that got to do with anything?
Apart from the fact that we are now weak and cannot survive without our many technological incubators. If something major happens, we are lost.

Thorne: Anthropomorphizing nature doesn't make her a goddess. It's just more fuzzy thinking.

Well, I like to think of it that way. And I am not fuzzy headed, not for that reason anyway ;-)