real vs. play punishment

[Dog's Lady]

I would love to have answers from both sides, here, please.
Here is the deal: I love to be spanked, especially if it is framed as punishment. The questions are: 1. What could he use as a real punishment? 2. He talks about using spanking as a reward--but with my preference, it would lose something. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can feel punished, without getting rewarded for bad behavior? I don't want to be a SAM, but I don't know how we could handle this, which is I why I am asking for help. I hope I was able to explain well enough that y'all can answer.
As always, thank you in advance for taking the time to read and, hopefully, answer.

[Silus]

For one you can set a schedule for a weekly "maintenance spanking".

[denuseri]

What is a SAM?

What are some things you truly detest or find difficult to endure for very long?

I prefer to be clear when it comes to "funishments" and "punishments" myself though I have often seen the two combined, though usually in the case of a funishment, the instigating infraction is a voluntary almost flirtatious exchange between the two parties and often completely made up, or for something minor.

Are you deliberately provoking him into a response so you can be spanked? If that's undesirable behavior then it can be corrected.

Some spankings can be pleasurable at one level and a real pain in the ass at others...so it may be a simple matter of changing things up, using a cane, or tieing you in an uncomfortable position etc. Tabasco sauce held in the mouth or up one's butt-hole during said spanking may or may not do the trick.

[Xmaster1]

SAM = Smart Assed Masochist

Ahh the Master's Dilemma: How do you punish a submissive who enjoys being punished?

As denuseri stated, you use something the submissive really detests as a real punishment.

No one on this board can tell you what that is, but your Master should figure it out. If he is paying attention to you and doing a nice variety of things, he will soon discover what turns you on and what makes you feel punished.

Again like denuseri mentioned, while a hand or paddle spanking might make you all warm and creamy inside, maybe a few strokes with a cane might teach you manners very quickly.

Also, having to list off your misdeeds and begging to be corrected works with some.

Tabasco sauce, hmmm, I like that. I have used Vick's rub before, works pretty well but then agan some subs think that is a reward. :/

But sometimes the best punishment can come from the inside, just making my submissive know how they have disappointed me can be harsher than any whip, cane,or belt ever could. ( I use that one very sparingly and only for very willful disobedience)

I suspect that as you both gain experience, he will learn what makes you behave and what makes you want to misbehave.

[Ozme52]

There's a huge difference in how my girl receives maintenance spankings and punishment. If she knows I'm unhappy, the punishmennt is so much harder on her psyche.

But it in no way detracts from the enjoyment I get (and presumably her as well) from the daily spanking she gets each morning concurrent with the removal of her overnight sleeping cuffs and collars. I always get up giving her the spanking and often made her late for work. (This was our summer routine btw. I'm home again for the winter.)

For you, I think if your punishments are framed as corrective vs. punishment for misdeeds, you can get the same joy from them without forcing your master to somehow differentiate between play and punishment.

In other words, he can spank you because he enjoys it, he can spank you because you can't quite get things done to his satisfaction (and he can keep raising the bar to keep you both happy) but real punishment, for direct disobedience, should not be something you aspire to, imo.

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And now, rereading your question, I think that would be perfect. Punishment, not for being bad but for failing to meet his ever-increasing performance bar.

I'd give you the task of presenting your ass for a spanking in that oh-so-perfect standing, bent at the waist, grasping your ankles, posture that makes men hard. Of course, he'll have to whip that ass until you get it just perfect. Back not arched correctly? Ankles not grasped low enough? Butt cheeks clenched... or not? Each will get you swatted. Fix one but lose the other doing so? Swatted. Pretty soon you'll not have any issues with the punishment not being "real" enough.

[Dog's Lady]

One of his little jokes:
Masochist: Hit me, hurt me.
Sadist: No.
And that is sometimes his favorite form of punishment--just no. As for maintenance spankings, ah, what a lovely idea--but I am in Connecticut and he is in Florida (hence my multiple posts in the "your #1 fantasy in one sentence" thread--fantasies are about all I have right now.)

Thanks everyone, but especially denuseri for 'funishment'-great word-and to Ozme, who has posted answers to so many of my questions. I really appreciate all of you who take the time to help this newbie get better (hopefully) for her lover/Master. This site reminds me of the SCA in the way it welcomes people--you have all made me feel at home and, more importantly, less wrong for my kinks.

[Xmaster1]

Well personally I believe if you aren't kinky then that is wrong.

[Ozme52]

Thanks everyone, but especially denuseri for 'funishment'-great word-and to Ozme, who has posted answers to so many of my questions. I really appreciate all of you who take the time to help this newbie get better (hopefully) for her lover/Master. This site reminds me of the SCA in the way it welcomes people--you have all made me feel at home and, more importantly, less wrong for my kinks.

You're welcome.... and if you're indeed SCA, then you have a "vanilla" excuse to call me Sir to boot.

[Dog's Lady]

Ah, Ozme, then you should/could address me as Lady--really, I have a scroll to prove it and everything! That does explain your exquisite courtesy. Seriously, you have been very helpful; thank you, Sir.

[ksst]

Real punishment would be rolling over and going to sleep (or other ways of ignoring). Play punishment would be spanking etc.

Dog's Lady and Sir Ozme- funny, I have that scroll to prove I am a lady also.

[Dog's Lady]

Ok, very off topic, but I can't help myself. To Ozme and ksst, doth Lady Meadhbha send greetings. Vivat Trimaris!
In Service (hmm, that has some BDSM connotations-maybe our two hobbies are not too far apart?),
Bantiarna Meadhbha inghean Riain

[ksst]

I was just wondering if the two hobbies are related somehow. I haven't been active in SCA in a long time, mainly because of disagreements in the local group and wanting to avoid certain people. But I miss it.

[Ozme52]

We all seem to enjoy the fringes of what the masses call "normal".

[Dog's Lady]

And you know what they say about Pennsic, don't you? If you can't get laid there, you can't get laid. I know of at least one Household that is all about polyamory, so it's possible there is one for us, maybe? And, of course, there are the Tuchux at Pennsic: my understanding is that they are Gorean. (And there is a great story about the time they kidnapped the Trimaran queen. Unfortunately for them, she was hypoglycemic and was drinking all their booze-so they offered to pay Trimaris to take her back!)
But yes, it does seem that we are people who don't fit the norms of 20th/21st century America. Maybe we should all just be grateful that we can find homes, whether at royal court, or here.

[ksst]

I hadn't heard that story about the queen, but have sung the song about Pennsic plenty. I never went to the war. I know quite a few poly amorous households, but am not one of them. I guess I heard of the Tuchux but never really knew what they were about- not really sure what Gorean is either.

I was thinking maybe it had something to do with the hierarchy, or the role playing. I mean, where else can you learn a proper curtsy?

[Dog's Lady]

Which song about Pennsic?

[ksst]

If you can't get laid at Pennsic war you can't get laid at all...

[Dog's Lady]

I've never heard that one--I only know the one someone from Trimaris wrote to the tune of "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald," then wrote a new tune for so he could record it for a fund-raising album for the kingdom.

[singletaillover]

for me if i get punished from Master, Master would use the toys that i dont like, like the hard flogger, canes, or would put me into the naughty corner with both hands behind my back with just my forehead and nose touching the wall and would ignore me for at least 10 minutes in which it feels like a lot more than 10 minutes as i hate being ignored its the worse punishment for me

[ksst]

This is Ksst's master.
To the tune of The ballad of Ballymore

Balls to your partner, Arse against the wall
If you can't get laid at Pensic War, you Can't get laid at all.

Oh, the Baroness Arwin she was there, throwing them into fits
They were swinging from the rafters and bouncing off her tits

singing Balls...
and many many other verses.
Jaravellir, Jaravellir! Fighting Catfish one and all!

[Dog's Lady]

singletailover--thanks for getting us back on thread! Oz and ksst--maybe we shall meet someday at the great war!

[ksst]

We're no longer active in SCA, but I would like to meet you some day. We're in Wisconsin, if you ever come up this way, stop by. We can throw our own little war, as my Master is teaching our boys sword fighting. One time they were having a series of duals, or 2 on one, and this was all ok until I joined in, and my dog Cinder took exception to him attacking me. She leaped on him and planted her feet in a sensitive spot, which knocked him out of combat.

[Master_chris]

I find the real thing better, then playing at it, as I enjoy the feel of the sub responding to my touch, and I find it easyer to more from one thing to other.

[leo9]

for me if i get punished from Master, Master would use the toys that i dont like, like the hard flogger, canes, or would put me into the naughty corner with both hands behind my back with just my forehead and nose touching the wall and would ignore me for at least 10 minutes in which it feels like a lot more than 10 minutes as i hate being ignored its the worse punishment for me

That's the key thing, finding what a particular sub feels as punishment. My ex-slave's appetite for whippings was limited only by what she could physically take, but she hated OTK spanking, something about the childish associations hit her where she lived. So I kept that for when I wanted her to know right deep down that Master was displeased.

[ksst]

I enjoy most punishments, unless I know he's mad, then I feel terrible, no matter what the punishment actually is. He often threatens me with denial of sex, but so far that hasn't happened because I try to be extra good then.